She ran her fingers through my hair and stopped to look at me questioningly.

I waited for her to say something. I was letting her lead; unusual for me, but I recognized she had more experience in this area than I did. I was at her place and she was in control.

“Do you want it long enough to tuck behind your ears?” she asked.

Yes, I replied, and she went to work. After a few minutes, she said, “I like that podcast. My boyfriend and I listened to him all the way down on our drive to Florida.”

“What?” I was puzzled.

“I just noticed your hat,” she said, indicating the Joe Rogan ball cap I’d laid on the shelf in front of us when I had sat down.

“Oh, yea, he’s got interesting talks,” I said. “Looong ones. Good for road trips.”

She continued cutting my hair, then I asked, “So what do you like about the podcast?”

She stopped for a minute, thinking. “You made me think,” she said, with a small laugh. “I don’t know. It’s just…he asks good questions. It’s a good conversation.”

“Yea,” I said. “He has interesting people on the show.”

Later, I thought about what she said. It seemed generic, “good conversation”. I realized the simplicity was why the podcast worked for the millions of fans.

He just talked. There was no agenda. He started the podcast without trying to do anything but record his conversations. And his conversations weren’t politically stamped, although he did talk about politics. He talked about everything. Fitness, food, relationships, haters, and happiness. He wanted to have a discussion.

His curiosity made the dialogue less about lecturing you, or accusing people, and more about sharing information.

His intention was not to set an example, but he ultimately does set an example: Be curious, be resepctful, and don’t take yourself too seriously.

How sneaky if that was his agenda all along?